tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post664023807761743896..comments2023-07-28T01:12:26.064-07:00Comments on Nierenberg's Climate Musings: Carbon Taxes - Nice Idea But They Won't Get The Job DoneNicolas Nierenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15853996586598424891noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-30375669606168128562010-01-31T21:49:59.225-08:002010-01-31T21:49:59.225-08:00Thanks Michael,
Cap and Trade is just a clumsier ...Thanks Michael,<br /><br />Cap and Trade is just a clumsier form of tax, so I agree it won't work either. They can each cause modest amounts of changes in a particular country, which might be useful. But neither one is any kind of practical solution to the large scale CO2 problem.Nicolas Nierenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853996586598424891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-70844182169246546852010-01-31T21:20:26.899-08:002010-01-31T21:20:26.899-08:00A key component of your argument is the price elas...A key component of your argument is the price elasticity of energy demand, and the fact that if US goes it alone without the rest of the world then action will be pointless.<br /><br />But surely the argument applies exactly the same to both tax and cap and trade? How can cap and trade achieve a given reduction in carbon emmission without raising prices exactly the same as a tax?<br /><br />The only difference you have pointed out in this post between cap/trade and tax is that a tax is easier to understand and less subject to political meddling (until they try and apply as many exceptions as apply to Australia's income tax code...)Michael Haubernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-53296506828896386042009-02-15T09:54:00.000-08:002009-02-15T09:54:00.000-08:00ER,Thank you for making a specific comment. I did...ER,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for making a specific comment. I did read your proposal some time ago and unfortunately consider it simplistic.<BR/><BR/>The fundamental difference between VAT type taxes and carbon taxes is that the VAT tax is based on the type of item at each point of the process. The Carbon tax is based on an input that is no longer apparent at the time of importation. <BR/><BR/>I will update my post to comment on this.Nicolas Nierenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853996586598424891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-86220052412595918732009-02-14T18:27:00.000-08:002009-02-14T18:27:00.000-08:00Obviously you have not read Eli Rabett's simple p...Obviously you have not read <A HREF="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2007/12/rabetts-simple-plan-for-saving-world-un.html" REL="nofollow"> Eli Rabett's simple plan to save the world</A>. To deal with the issue of how to tax imports Imports from countries that do not have an emissions levy would have the full levy imposed at the time of import. The base rate would be generic ones based on worst previous practices in the countries that do have carbon taxes, which would be reduced on presenting proof that the actual emissions were lower.<BR/><BR/>This is similar in spirit to what the Germans did with their packaging levy (Green Point) which has the additional interesting point that it is not a tax as such, but no one will buy anything that does not display the "optional" symbol saying the packaging levy has been paid.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-73245688135598699522009-02-14T08:33:00.000-08:002009-02-14T08:33:00.000-08:00Art,Thanks for commenting. It depends what you ar...Art,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for commenting. It depends what you are trying to accomplish, but if the goal is global reduction in CO2 output, then your plan ignores the objections that I raised in my post.<BR/><BR/>In many areas the CO2 output from a country imposing this tax would be exported to countries not imposing the tax, with no net gain and perhaps even a loss from shipping.<BR/><BR/>It isn't possible to tax imports based on CO2 content because there is no meaningful way to calculate the CO2 content of an import.Nicolas Nierenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853996586598424891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4630467186961819522.post-41407652349630445662009-02-05T13:47:00.000-08:002009-02-05T13:47:00.000-08:00IMO the answer is a combined approach of a rising ...IMO the answer is a combined approach of a rising carbon tax and declining subsidies on all non-(fossil)carbon energy. The idea would be to set up a 20-year plan with a carbon tax that starts out somewhat inconvenient and rises to almost prohibitive over the 20-year time frame. <B>All</B> the proceeds would be allocated to subsidies on non-(fossil)carbon energy, allocated according to the amount of carbon tax collected and the current amount of non-fossil energy being generated. Administrative costs would either come from other sources, or be limited to some small fraction (<I>e.g.</I>5%) of the carbon tax receipts.<BR/><BR/>For subsidies on fixed power generation, the actual energy should come from non-fossil sources, no exceptions. For vehicles and other mobile applications, the energy must not come from immediate burning of fossil carbon, but systems like batteries and fuel cells whose original energy came from fossil carbon would be allowed (although the carbon tax would be added into the cost of that recharging energy).<BR/><BR/>This would provide a double incentive: the prospect of immediate high subsidies would spur investment in short term development, while the prospect of replacing the increasingly expensive carbon would provide for on-going investment in the more promising technologies. Note that the subsidies on rechargeable mobile systems, even if recharged by fossil-sourced energy, would spur the development of technologies that could later be used with non-fossil fixed energy sources.<BR/><BR/>The major difficulty, of course, is creating a <B>reliable</B> 20-year commitment, avoiding major corruption or modification for local political agendas. I'm not sure this would be possible, but if it could, IMO it's a workable solution.AKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905636789614137068noreply@blogger.com